The Occupational Safety Leadership Podcast

Episode 209 - Occupational Safety - Determining Incident Investigations

Dr. Ayers continues his series on incident investigations by focusing on how to determine causal factors — the deeper reasons an incident occurred. He emphasizes that effective investigations require peeling back layers, asking better questions, and refusing to stop at surface‑level explanations.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. Peel Back the Onion

The episode stresses that incidents rarely have a single cause. Investigators must dig through:

• Behaviors

• Conditions

• System weaknesses

• Organizational contributors

Stopping at “worker error” guarantees repeat incidents. Sources:

 

2. Causal Factors vs. Root Causes

Dr. Ayers highlights the difference between:

• Causal factors — the conditions or actions that contributed

• Root causes — the underlying system failures that allowed those factors to exist

You can’t fix what you don’t understand. Sources:

 

3. Ask “Why?” Until It Hurts

The episode reinforces the importance of:

• Probing questions

• Challenging assumptions

• Looking beyond the obvious

• Avoiding blame‑based conclusions

Good investigations are uncomfortable — and that’s the point. Sources:

 

4. The Goal Is Prevention, Not Paperwork

Dr. Ayers reminds listeners that the purpose of determining causal factors is to ensure the incident never happens again, not to complete a form or satisfy a requirement. Sources:

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Dig deeper — incidents are rarely simple.

• Differentiate causal factors from root causes.

• Ask better questions to uncover system failures.

• The real goal is prevention, not documentation.

Episode 208 - Bruce Main - Prevention Through Design (PTD)

In this episode, Dr. Ayers interviews Bruce Main, a leading expert in machine safety and risk assessment, to explore how Prevention Through Design (PtD) can dramatically reduce workplace hazards. Bruce emphasizes that the most effective safety solutions are those built into the design of equipment, processes, and systems — not added after the fact.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. The Best Time to Control Hazards Is Before They Exist

Bruce explains that PtD focuses on eliminating hazards during the design phase, when changes are:

• Cheaper

• More effective

• More reliable

• Less disruptive

Once equipment is built and installed, options shrink and costs rise.

 

2. Engineering Controls Beat Administrative Controls Every Time

Bruce reinforces the hierarchy of controls:

• Eliminate the hazard

• Substitute safer options

• Engineer out exposure

• Administratively manage what’s left

• PPE as the last line

PtD is about living at the top of that hierarchy.

 

3. Design Must Reflect Real‑World Use

A recurring theme: If a design doesn’t match how people actually work, it will fail.

Bruce stresses the importance of:

• Observing real tasks

• Understanding operator behavior

• Designing safeguards that support productivity

• Avoiding “idealized” assumptions

When design ignores reality, workers bypass controls.

 

4. Collaboration Is Essential for PtD Success

Effective PtD requires input from:

• Engineering

• Maintenance

• Operators

• Safety professionals

• Leadership

No single group sees the full picture. Bruce highlights that PtD is a team sport.

 

5. PtD Saves Money, Time, and Lives

Bruce makes the case that PtD isn’t just safer — it’s smarter business. Benefits include:

• Lower lifecycle costs

• Fewer retrofits

• Reduced downtime

• Better productivity

• Stronger safety culture

Designing safety in is always cheaper than bolting it on.

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Eliminate hazards early — design is the most powerful safety tool.

• Engineering controls are the backbone of lasting safety.

• Design must reflect real‑world work, not idealized procedures.

• PtD requires cross‑functional collaboration.

• Investing in PtD pays off in safety, reliability, and cost savings.

Episode 207 - Occupational Safety - Interviewing Employees After an Incident

Dr. Ayers focuses on one of the most critical — and most mishandled — parts of incident investigations: interviewing employees in a way that uncovers truth without blame. The episode emphasizes that the goal of interviews is learning, not fault‑finding.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. The Purpose of the Interview Is Understanding, Not Blame

Employees shut down when they feel interrogated. Dr. Ayers stresses that interviews should:

• Build trust

• Encourage openness

• Focus on conditions and systems

• Avoid blame‑seeking questions

Psychological safety drives honesty.

 

2. Set the Tone Before Asking Questions

A good interview begins with:

• Explaining the purpose (“We’re here to learn, not punish”)

• Reassuring the employee

• Creating a calm, private environment

• Making it clear they are not in trouble

Tone determines the quality of information.

 

3. Ask Open‑Ended, Non‑Leading Questions

Effective questions include:

• “Walk me through what happened.”

• “What made this task difficult?”

• “What conditions were different today?”

• “What normally happens when you do this job?”

Avoid yes/no questions and anything that implies blame.

 

4. Focus on Systems, Not Individuals

Dr. Ayers reinforces that incidents are rarely caused by a single action. Interviews should explore:

• Training

• Tools and equipment

• Procedures

• Work environment

• Production pressure

• Communication

The goal is to understand the system that shaped the behavior.

 

5. Listen More Than You Talk

Ayers emphasizes:

• Let employees finish

• Don’t interrupt

• Don’t jump to conclusions

• Take notes

• Ask clarifying questions only after they finish their story

Listening reveals root causes.

 

6. Close the Interview With Respect

End by:

• Thanking the employee

• Summarizing what you heard

• Explaining next steps

• Reinforcing that the goal is prevention

This builds trust for future investigations.

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Interviews must be psychologically safe to be effective.

• Open‑ended questions uncover system failures.

• The goal is learning, not blame.

• Listening is the investigator’s most powerful tool.

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Episode 206 - Dr. Megan Tranter - Leadership and Career Strategist

Dr. Ayers sits down with Dr. Megan Tranter, a leadership and career strategist with a long and varied background in safety, to explore the human side of safety leadership. The episode focuses on soft skills, imposter syndrome, and giving and receiving feedback — three areas that often determine whether safety professionals thrive or stall in their careers.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. Soft Skills Are the Real Differentiator

Dr. Tranter emphasizes that technical knowledge alone doesn’t make a great safety leader. Critical soft skills include:

• Communication

• Influence

• Emotional intelligence

• Relationship‑building

These skills determine whether safety messages land and whether leaders gain trust. Sources:

 

2. Imposter Syndrome Is Common — and Normal

Dr. Tranter discusses how many safety professionals feel like they’re “not enough,” especially when stepping into new roles or facing high expectations. Key insights:

• Imposter syndrome affects high performers

• It can be managed through self‑awareness

• Confidence grows through action, not waiting

Sources:

 

3. Feedback Is a Leadership Superpower

The episode highlights two sides of feedback:

Giving feedback:

• Be specific

• Focus on behaviors, not character

• Deliver it with care and clarity

Receiving feedback:

• Listen without defensiveness

• Look for patterns

• Use it as fuel for growth

Sources:

 

4. Career Growth Requires Intentionality

Dr. Tranter encourages safety professionals to:

• Seek mentors

• Ask for stretch opportunities

• Clarify their long‑term goals

• Build a personal leadership brand

Your career doesn’t advance by accident — it advances by design. Sources:

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Soft skills elevate safety leaders far more than technical expertise alone.

• Imposter syndrome is common — and manageable.

• Feedback is essential for growth, both giving and receiving.

• Intentional career planning creates momentum and opportunity.

Episode 205 - Occupational Safety - Incident Investigation Team

Dr. Ayers explains how to build an effective incident investigation team, emphasizing that the right people — not the most people — determine whether an investigation uncovers meaningful causes or just produces paperwork.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. Choose Team Members Who Want to Help

The episode stresses that investigators must be:

• Curious

• Objective

• Willing to learn

• Motivated to prevent recurrence

A reluctant or biased team member can derail the process. Sources:

 

2. Select People With Relevant Knowledge and Experience

Dr. Ayers highlights the importance of including individuals who understand:

• The task involved

• The equipment

• The environment

• The workflow

This ensures the team can accurately reconstruct what happened. Sources:

 

3. Keep the Team Small and Purposeful

More people doesn’t mean better investigations. A focused team:

• Works faster

• Stays aligned

• Avoids groupthink

• Maintains confidentiality

Quality > quantity. Sources:

 

4. Include Cross‑Functional Perspectives

A strong team may include:

• Supervisors

• Operators

• Safety professionals

• Maintenance

• Engineering

Each brings a different lens to understanding causal factors. Sources:

 

5. The Goal Is Prevention, Not Blame

The team must be aligned around:

• Learning

• Understanding system contributors

• Identifying meaningful corrective actions

Blame shuts down honesty and limits insight. Sources:

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Pick people who care and who understand the work.

• Small, skilled teams outperform large, unfocused ones.

• Cross‑functional perspectives strengthen investigations.

• The team’s purpose is prevention, not fault‑finding.

Episode 204 - Occupational Safety - Incident Investigation - Information to gather

Dr. Ayers explains the essential information investigators must collect at the very beginning of an incident investigation. The episode emphasizes that strong investigations depend on accurate, timely, and complete information, and that missing early details leads to weak conclusions and ineffective corrective actions.

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. Start With the Foundational Facts

Investigators must immediately document:

• Who was involved

• What task was being performed

• When the incident occurred

• Where it happened

These anchor points prevent assumptions and keep the investigation grounded. Sources:

 

2. Capture Conditions at the Time of the Incident

Dr. Ayers stresses documenting environmental and operational conditions such as:

• Lighting

• Noise

• Weather (if applicable)

• Housekeeping

• Equipment status

• Production pressure

Conditions often explain why the event unfolded the way it did. Sources:

 

3. Gather Physical Evidence Immediately

Critical evidence includes:

• Tools and equipment involved

• PPE used or not used

• Materials

• Machine settings

• Photos and videos of the scene

Evidence degrades quickly — early collection is essential. Sources:

 

4. Interview Witnesses and Involved Employees

The episode reinforces:

• Interview as soon as possible

• Use open‑ended questions

• Avoid blame‑oriented language

• Capture what they saw, heard, and experienced

Human memory fades fast; early interviews preserve accuracy. Sources:

 

5. Review Relevant Documentation

Investigators should examine:

• Training records

• Procedures

• Maintenance logs

• Work orders

• SDS sheets

• Previous incident reports

Documentation often reveals system gaps or patterns. Sources:

 

6. Understand “Work as Imagined” vs. “Work as Performed”

One of the most important distinctions:

• Work as written (procedures)

• Work as actually done

Most incidents occur because the real workflow differs from the documented one. Sources:

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Strong investigations depend on strong information.

• Document conditions and evidence immediately.

• Interview early and focus on learning, not blame.

• Compare written procedures to real‑world work.

•  

Episode 203 - Dr. Alex LeBeau - Introduction to PFAS (Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances)

In today's episode, Dr. Ayers discuss PFAS with Dr. Alex LeBeau.  Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) have been used for decades in a variety of industrial and consumer products, and they are anticipated to persist in the environment for even longer, hence the name ‘forever chemicals’. These PFAS have received extraordinary scrutiny in recent years, with the US EPA finalizing drinking water thresholds for the chemicals in 2024. However, there is still debate in the scientific community on the actual health risk that PFAS present and which individual PFAS are primary risk drivers. This discussion lays the foundation to discuss PFAS and the potential toxicity they present.

Episode 202 - Occupational Safety - Incident Investigation Process Steps

Dr. Ayers walks through the step‑by‑step process of conducting an effective incident investigation. The episode reinforces that investigations must be systematic, timely, and focused on learning, not blame. Sources:

 

🧠 Key Themes

1. Respond Immediately and Secure the Scene

The first step is to ensure:

• Injured employees receive care

• The area is made safe

• Hazards are controlled

• Evidence is preserved

A delayed response leads to lost information. Sources:

 

2. Gather Initial Facts and Evidence

Dr. Ayers emphasizes collecting:

• Photos and videos

• Equipment settings

• Tools and materials involved

• Environmental conditions

• Physical evidence

This forms the factual foundation of the investigation. Sources:

 

3. Conduct Interviews Early

Interviewing employees and witnesses quickly ensures:

• More accurate recall

• Better detail

• Less influence from others

Interviews should be open‑ended and non‑blaming. Sources:

 

4. Identify Causal Factors

The episode stresses digging deeper than surface‑level explanations. Investigators must examine:

• Behaviors

• Conditions

• System contributors

• Organizational factors

This step prevents “worker error” from becoming the default conclusion. Sources:

 

5. Determine Root Causes

Causal factors explain what happened. Root causes explain why it was possible. Dr. Ayers highlights the need to:

• Ask “why” repeatedly

• Look for system weaknesses

• Avoid blame‑based reasoning Sources:

 

6. Develop Corrective Actions

Corrective actions must:

• Address root causes

• Be realistic

• Reduce or eliminate the hazard

• Have clear ownership and deadlines

Weak corrective actions guarantee repeat incidents. Sources:

 

7. Follow Up and Verify Effectiveness

The investigation is not complete until:

• Actions are implemented

• Their effectiveness is confirmed

• The risk is reduced

• Lessons learned are shared

Verification closes the loop. Sources:

 

🚀 Leadership Takeaways

• Investigations must be structured and timely.

• Evidence and interviews form the backbone of accuracy.

• Causal factors and root causes are not the same.

• Corrective actions must be meaningful and verified.

• The goal is learning and prevention, not blame.